tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post7316803682233912688..comments2023-12-31T02:40:43.545-06:00Comments on The Norse Mythology Blog | norsemyth.org: Blond Thor: Stan Lee Wasn't WrongDr. Karl E. H. Seigfriedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12175244816952769358noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-7556216676575000992017-07-12T22:12:18.239-05:002017-07-12T22:12:18.239-05:00@be_slayed: i think indra is not thor's indian...@be_slayed: i think indra is not thor's indian vedic lord. It could be brihaspati achrarya, which gets translated to a big lord. Briha means big and pati mean lord. Indra had a teacher by this name. It could be possible that Indo-aryan had an Indo-European person as a teacher, who guided him. Besides, thursday or thor's day in India is known as Brihaspati var or the day of the big lord. I think the original thor was that big lord.<br /><br />But yes, I fully agree, thor, the original one was not blonde and red haired. It could be possible that Thor has been christianized fully, or nordics of todays have painted thor like him. Original Thor was a person with Indo-European ancestry.<br /><br />On that red head, sometimes, a person who is very angry is also labelled as red-head, hot headed person.peterparker - Servant of BHAGWAN PARASHURAMAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05564653768978489866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-33766461256411909372017-03-18T16:50:00.370-05:002017-03-18T16:50:00.370-05:00Vikings sailed with special herbs for keeping thei...Vikings sailed with special herbs for keeping their hair as blonde as possible - something archaeologists have been finding evidence of lately- that and an assortment of grooming devices that predate razors and tweezers. Thor did try and pass for Freya once to get Mjolner back and she had curls of gold. I would say a blonde with red beard (I have a cousin who is such). As for youthfulness, we must not forget the effect of the apples of Iddun now... health, youth and beauty.Boss Mama Gipsiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00410835098357148617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-29454969542370228362017-03-18T16:33:10.449-05:002017-03-18T16:33:10.449-05:00FENRISULFR, re Kirby creation The Destroyer: &quo...FENRISULFR, re Kirby creation The Destroyer: "To my knowledge there is no Norse myth like that—and yet, there should be, because as far as I’m concerned it’s worthy of being there."<br /><br />Excellent point! I totally agree. <br /><br />Kirby did indeed have an "instinctive grasp of the mythical." Fact is, virtually every time a myth was told, the poet added some spin. I read someplace that Kirby had one book of Viking myths that he drew from, especially for Tales of Asgard." But it's clear that he gave his own imagination free reign, and hence Kirby enriched the Norse myths. His Thor is now as real to our culture as the Thor of the eddas and the sagas. Kirby imagined a handsome, clean-shaven Thor largely because that was the image that spoke to him in 1962. If he was creating Thor in 2017, he probably would imagine him differently.<br />The Marvel Comics Thor is a mix of the existing variations of the Norse myths spanning over a millennium, and the imagination of Jack Kirby -- a mythologist in his own right. <br />Hail Thor!<br />Hail Kirby!Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14237046643998225693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-43138365548848005242016-05-03T00:33:25.163-05:002016-05-03T00:33:25.163-05:00Very good article, very imformative.
I’ve always f...Very good article, very imformative.<br />I’ve always felt that, in making Thor blond and clean shaven, Lee and Kirby were trying to invoke the image of the archetypal Viking [think Kirk Douglas in “The Vikings,” with much longer hair]. They also wanted a younger looking hero who the readers could identify with [red-bearded and burly looked too much like somebody middle aged]. <br />Thor was always one of my favorite heroes [first saw him in his second appearance in “Journey Into Mystery” #84 [1962]. It was also some of my earliest exposure to the Norse myths. Sure, they weren’t strictly accurate—but boy, did they make my spirit sing! The Norse myths had a raw and primeval power that gripped the soul. Jack Kirby had an instinctive grasp of the mythical [it would not fail him, even when he was doing “The New Gods” for DC].<br />One of the best examples of Kirby’s ability to tap into the archetypal, was in the creation of The Destroyer in “Journey Into Mystery” #118 [1965]. The story goes that Odin knew a great enemy would one day come to Earth. Odin had the Destroyer created and hidden in the Temple of Darkness. The enemy would come to the Temple and wake the Destroyer who would destroy the first thing he saw. To my knowledge there is no Norse myth like that—and yet, there should be, because as far as I’m concerned it’s worthy of being there.FENRISULFRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11138990582024991916noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-8334622658097929932014-02-09T11:28:12.149-06:002014-02-09T11:28:12.149-06:00I just discovered yet another golden age Thor by S...I just discovered yet another golden age Thor by Simon and Kirby studios, courtesy of the fanzine "The Jack Kirby Collector". In Boy Commandos #7 there's a story titled "The Shadow of Valhalla". Thor here has a horned helmet, a red beard, and a tunic. Odin actually looks a little like his later Marvel rendition. The story was, alas, not drawn by Jack but S&K studio artists. scott ruplinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13787065677436896374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-44605386472581705342013-02-02T12:48:31.260-06:002013-02-02T12:48:31.260-06:00Stan Lee merely took the attributes of Thor, as we... Stan Lee merely took the attributes of Thor, as well names of the gods, and places that would be more appealing to the youngsters. In the Poetic and Prose Edda, Thor is always coming back from fighting or going to Jotunheim to fight the Etins, who are detrimental to freedom and order of nature. That makes him a hero of all The Nine Worlds except, Jotunheim and Helheim of course. It makes sense that Marvel would add him to the ranks of heroes in the comic world. <br /> In my opinion, it doesn't matter what color hair he has, and whether Marvel was correct according to the myths. If it leads the youngsters to learn the TRUTH about their/our heritage and culture, the gods and goddesses, Norse heroes, and the Nine Worlds so be it. <br /> They will learn who the real Asa-Thor is, and can imagine him any way they want to imagine him. Thus is the gift bestowed by Odin, Haenir, and Lodur.<br /> ~Stay Tru~<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04738323782328195092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-79453502173644462142013-01-11T01:56:58.747-06:002013-01-11T01:56:58.747-06:00Awesome Blog! Thanks! Great posts too!Awesome Blog! Thanks! Great posts too!Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-79228070311134271892012-07-10T16:25:01.742-05:002012-07-10T16:25:01.742-05:00Extremely interesting. I never knew about the Ditk...Extremely interesting. I never knew about the Ditko story - which looks kinda influenced by Kubert's "Viking Prince." The earliest blonde Thor I'm aware of is "Thor's War Against the Giants" by Marten Eskel Winge. (1872) Thor is blonde and close-shaved, looking a bit like Liam Hemsworth, in fact, with bare arms, a red belted tunic and a flowing fur cape.JamesGrantGoldinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17623570870030663025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-54561795488333337042012-05-04T13:14:27.937-05:002012-05-04T13:14:27.937-05:00One thing I always found noteworthy about Snorri S...One thing I always found noteworthy about Snorri Sturluson's Edda was that he explicitly states the Aesir came from Asia -- he seems to be saying they were literally men, but considering the research that indicates the Norse gods were variants of earlier Indo-European deities, such as the Indra comparison above, I've always wondered how much Sturluson meant by his comments on the origins of the Aesir.<br />I also applaud your in-depth research on the comic-book history of Thor, much of which I never knew. I was more aware of the later work done by Walt Simonson -- who wanted to actually change the character's hair colour to red, and did add the beard -- as well as Peter Madsen's Valhalla series (in which Thor is definitely the red-bearded thunder god).<br />Very interesting post -- thanks for this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-4595875825035015832011-11-15T19:26:19.380-06:002011-11-15T19:26:19.380-06:00The Norse were well versed in astronomy, a necessa...The Norse were well versed in astronomy, a necessary science for sailing. Asgard was located at the Sea of Azov (northern Black Sea); access to the Mediterranean and oceans would require this skill. Using astronomy for direction and telling time requires tools, which leads to the images of Odin with one eye. The use of lenses is much older than conventionally recognized; when one uses a telescope, or a menhir to measure the movement of the heavens, it requires shutting one eye. It is reasonable to conclude that one-eye symbols can be associated with mastery of astronomy, and they are commonly imaged with other astronomical symbols such as stars. ref: Symbology, Decoding Classic Images; Ancientskyscraper.com)symbolseekerhttp://whiteknightstudio.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-31173034187509558392011-10-09T15:47:20.315-05:002011-10-09T15:47:20.315-05:00Bill, with all due respect, that proves nothing wh...Bill, with all due respect, that proves nothing whatsoever. I can show you thousands of pages of Kirby artwork, most of which if you look at the originals have dialogue pencilled in the margins. Show me ONE typewritten original of a Stan Lee comic book script. You can't. Because they don't exist. The only written pages I've ever seen by Stan Lee are two pages of comments/ideas related to the Fantastic Four while Kirby was developing the project, most of which, like the idea that Ben Grimm and Reed Richards would fight over Sue's affections, Kirby didn't choose to use. To understand the relationship of the two men you need to understand that Kirby was the senior of the two by 10 years, with 20 years experience in creating comic book characters and drawing and writing their stories, and a voracious reader of science fiction and mythology, and that Stan Lee was to him a kid relative of the publisher, 10 years his junior, in the office who would phone him with sometimes an idea for a story, or sometimes just a deadline, and that Kirby would sometimes use ideas Lee suggested but also felt free not to. Because Lee's "inspirations" in advance of any story being drawn were whims expressed over the telephone, not written stories he'd typed out and sent to Kirby in advance. That NEVER happened. EVER. Show me something to the contrary and I will retract that comment but it simply can't be done. There is no such thing as a Stan Lee Marvel comic book script in existence. When Kirby ignored Lee and did things his own way, we got things like the Silver Surfer, which Stan Lee had nothing to do with. But if he had been the "writer," shouldn't he have? <br /><br />Please read from p. 80 on in this interview, the only time Kirby, usually an extremely polite man and one who did not wish to bite the hand that fed him, ever spoke up about the situation, after he had gotten tired of being screwed over by Lee and Marvel and gone to DC. You just cannot give credit to a guy who did not write stories as being the "creator" of anything, especially when those stories were drawn out entirely by someone else before being brought into his office. Lee didn't draw the first design of the character Thor or any other Marvel character, nor, as Kirby says in the interview, did he know squat about Norse mythology before the comic book was developed. Kirby designed virtually all of the classic Marvel superheroes, inventing their images and drawing or laying out most of the first stories of each. Lee put his "spin" on material that originated with others and was paid for work-for-hire and has spent most of his life taking advantage of the idea of the fact that it suited Marvel as a company for him to have "created" things better than it did to have it seem that the artist/writers of the original stories that are now making the company mountains of revenue from licensing had anything to do with the work they did. <br /><br />The truth of matters:<br /><br />http://www.serialsquadron.com/kirby/kirbyinterview.pdf<br /><br />http://www.serialsquadron.com//kirby/kirbyinterview2.pdfEricnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-90331292189333549282011-10-02T14:05:45.683-05:002011-10-02T14:05:45.683-05:00Great Blog post. Great facts. Very accurate.
Eric...Great Blog post. Great facts. Very accurate. <br />Eric's comments - not so much! For example mythology, including Thor & Loki figured into Timely stories in the late 40s when Kirby was NOT employed at Timely. Stan Lee WAS writing stories then though. HmmmBillhttp://21stcenturykirby.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-60869120612843824612011-10-01T05:29:23.871-05:002011-10-01T05:29:23.871-05:00Good article but to assume Stan Lee's word is ...Good article but to assume Stan Lee's word is anything but hype is a mistake. It was and still is Marvel company policy to state that Stan Lee "created" characters he generally never drew nor wrote stories of before artists brought pages into the office telling their first stories to avoid lawsuits with artists, primarily Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby, who were the true innovators of the company's primary properties. Kirby was the student of mythology and storyteller, knew all about the ancient legends and worked with the pencil and told the stories. Lee worked in an office and commissioned and scheduled and sold them, but he didn't write them; his tool was the telephone, and any dialogue he may have written was virtually always added to completed story artwork, he did not submit stories to be drawn to artists in advance as they did at DC. Using this method Marvel could get a story AND art AND character designs out of an artist in advance and pay only for the art (with a flat work-for-hire fee). Kirby's version of Thor was brought into the Marvel offices as one of a number of ideas submitted at the same time to Lee by Kirby when he was asked to come up with some new characters to help rescue a dying company, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe some of the first Thor stories were given to Stan's brother Larry Lieber to dialogue, so Lee may not even have been involved with any early work on the character at all. If Lee contributed anything to the character it is likely to have been a request for him to wear a red cape and blue suit, as he wanted a new character who would be like Superman for the company. In other words, and in a nutshell, what Lee asked for was a Superman, and Kirby brought him Thor. <br /><br />Kirby's prototype for the version of Thor with an alternate identity was probably the golden age version of the character: http://goldenageheroes.blogspot.com/2008/12/golden-age-origin-of-thor-god-of.html At any rate, it's Kirby who deserves credit for developing the character; he had a deep lifelong fascination with mythology and "New Gods" and was a brilliant storyteller, and that art and story came BEFORE the "writing," not after. What Lee was was a brilliant SALESMAN who sold Kirby's mythology-based character to a new generation of "true believers."Ericnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-90753604267151298852011-09-30T17:48:20.050-05:002011-09-30T17:48:20.050-05:00Interestingly, Thor's Indic counterpart Indra ...Interestingly, Thor's Indic counterpart Indra is explicitly described as <i>hari-smasru</i>, which is often translated as "red-bearded", or "blonde-bearded", though elsewhere <i>hari</i> is often translated as "tawny" (which admittedly is still in the same colour range). In part I think the colour is meant to be symbolic, as Indra's horses are also "hari" coloured, and the special Soma drink which is so closely associated with Indra is also "hari" coloured.<br /><br />What is interesting, is, rather like the Marvel Comics Thor, Indra has more recently been depicted as beardless. Though "more recently" includes at least the last few centuries, and probably longer, as every visual depiction of Indra I'm familiar with shows him as beardless (see, for instance, http://www.jnanam.net/indra/ ).be_slayedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02920742528327860445noreply@blogger.com