tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post8342711715708474056..comments2023-12-31T02:40:43.545-06:00Comments on The Norse Mythology Blog | norsemyth.org: Tolkien's Heathen Feminist, Part TwoDr. Karl E. H. Seigfriedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12175244816952769358noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-58870460609679374752013-07-07T06:45:17.433-05:002013-07-07T06:45:17.433-05:00I highly enjoyed the way you traced Eowyn's ch...I highly enjoyed the way you traced Eowyn's character back to her Nordic Valkyrie roots, and I found your argument (that Eowyn and Aragorn's clash over her riding into battle represented a clash of warldviews) compelling. I don't agree with some of the commenters that Eowyn's ultimate choice was a diminishment of her character or necessarily sexist, though. For one thing, Eowyn isn't the only character who chose peace over war--she joins the ranks of the most sympathetic characters including Frodo, Sam, Aragorn, Gandalf, and Faramir when she realizes valor is a grim necessity, not a desirable goal in life. So while arguably her shift in priorities could represent the Christian viewpoint prevailing over the heathen one, I would argue it's not about Eowyn's gender but rather a theme in the overall story.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-89798393969357597352013-07-03T10:39:02.434-05:002013-07-03T10:39:02.434-05:00I'd like to see a similar look at the characte...I'd like to see a similar look at the character Galadriel, who is pretty clearly in charge in Lothlorien. Her husband barely gets a line in.lazycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08391072231837230851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-37316986367634075732013-04-06T19:04:13.802-05:002013-04-06T19:04:13.802-05:00I would call attention also to Gandalf's later...I would call attention also to Gandalf's later accept of Éowyn's position. Having healed her in the Houses of Healing in Minas Tirith after the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, he comments that<br /><br />“<i>‘My friend,’ said Gandalf, ‘you had horses, and deeds of arms, and the free fields; but she, born in the body of a maid, had a spirit and courage at least the match of yours. Yet she was doomed to wait upon an old man, whom she loved as a father, and watch him falling into a mean dishonoured dotage; and her part seemed to her more ignoble than that of the staff he leaned on.</i>”<br /><br />Also, in particular when speaking of the influence of the Völsungasaga on Tolkien's other fiction, I think it is important to turn to <i>The Lay of Sigurd and Gudrún</i> to see how he interprets things there. It is, I think, quite telling of the treatment Tolkien gave of the character of Brynhild in his poem that he wrote in a note that “Brynhild cannot be a ‘human’ character mythicized (or confused with a Valkyrie Sigrdrífa). She is a Valkyrie humanized.” Following the argument in this article, I think one could argue that Tolkien, in Éowyn, shows the logical end-point of this process: Éowyn is a Valkyrie fully humanized. Troelshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07515711722551393026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-62005932873419013032013-03-22T10:03:29.640-05:002013-03-22T10:03:29.640-05:00Hello, Rae!
Remember, Tolkien viewed the LOTR as ...Hello, Rae!<br /><br />Remember, Tolkien viewed the LOTR as a Catholic work. Aragorn's ascension to kingship ushers in a New Age - one of men, with mythical creatures pushed to the side (or literally leaving Middle-earth).<br /><br />Éowyn's role as a shieldmaiden is one that hearkens back to heathen times. In the New World of patriarchy that replaces the Old World of myth & magic, there's simply no place for her. That's the great tragedy of her character.<br /><br />In Faramir's interaction with Éowyn, Tolkien presents us with an ideal relationship under the New Deal. They grow into mutual respect and understanding. There's nothing wrong with that!<br /><br />Of course, you and I would rather see her continue on some a journey of adventure and self-discovery. That's just not something Tolkien seems to have been comfortable writing. Such is life.Dr. Karl E. H. Seigfriedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12175244816952769358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-39014829704415872472013-03-20T21:29:41.525-05:002013-03-20T21:29:41.525-05:00Hi, Dr. Seigfied! I absolutely loved this essay on...Hi, Dr. Seigfied! I absolutely loved this essay on the comparison of heathen vs Catholic patriarch, and I was wondering if you had anything to say about Eowyn's ending, and the role Faramir plays? I've a deep affinity for the ending of the story, but something that's always irritated me is how Eowyn seemingly gives up her newly wrought strength for love. (Which I'm not saying is a bad thing, or anything like that) But Tolkien describes the way Faramir makes Eowyn feel as unsure, "child-like," and that she's unable to focus. Do you think this is just the time period the book was written in shining through, or is there something a little more to it?Raenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-24432482203428330322013-03-14T09:00:48.323-05:002013-03-14T09:00:48.323-05:00Dear Anonymous 2,
I agree with you on the ultimat...Dear Anonymous 2,<br /><br />I agree with you on the ultimate sources of post-Conversion patriarchy. However, I'm not the one insisting on using the term "Catholic." Check out the beginning of Part 1 of the article; Tolkien himself is the one who called <i>The Lord of the Rings</i> "a fundamentally religious and Catholic work." I'm just saying that Aragorn embodies that religious worldview, and Éowyn represents the heathen one. I think this is pretty clear from the evidence in the text itself.Dr. Karl E. H. Seigfriedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12175244816952769358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-1201230374579023832013-03-14T08:57:00.247-05:002013-03-14T08:57:00.247-05:00Alexa:
I totally hear you. I think that Aragorn&#...Alexa:<br /><br />I totally hear you. I think that Aragorn's ascension to kingship is portrayed in language that clearly associates him with Christianity, and the end of the book ushers in a New Age. Heathen shieldmaidens have no place in the Christian era, and Our Heroine must change with the times. I'm just glad that she got this one great scene (plus the one with the Black Rider) before the Conversion.Dr. Karl E. H. Seigfriedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12175244816952769358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-60568951104806804792013-03-14T08:52:17.057-05:002013-03-14T08:52:17.057-05:00Grace:
Thank you very much for your comment. I ap...Grace:<br /><br />Thank you very much for your comment. I applaud any religious community that strives for equality and human rights. On the other hand, I'm not sure how you could read "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands" as a call to gender equity...Dr. Karl E. H. Seigfriedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12175244816952769358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-3601401410918020322013-03-13T12:12:50.615-05:002013-03-13T12:12:50.615-05:00Thank you, Mr. Siegfried, for this interesting ess...Thank you, Mr. Siegfried, for this interesting essay. My only quarrel with you is your insistence on portraying the post-Nordic patriarchal attitude towards women as "Catholic." I submit that attitude is really descriptive of the traditional Semitic Mediterranean culture, which of course was that of the Apostles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-57722568913812407792013-03-13T11:46:34.261-05:002013-03-13T11:46:34.261-05:00Hello Dr. Seigfried,
I just discovered your blog ...Hello Dr. Seigfried, <br />I just discovered your blog today and am so happy I did. This was an excellent read and I look forward to following your blog.<br />Regards,<br />Kiki Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09671153760563005880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-57807054741623813522013-03-13T11:28:02.681-05:002013-03-13T11:28:02.681-05:00This is a very interesting look into Eowyn's c...This is a very interesting look into Eowyn's character, I've written about her before but never in terms of the Christian-heathen divide in a women's place. I'm surprised you don't discuss her transformation at the end, when she gives up being a shieldmaiden to devote her energy to healing and home-making. As a young girl reading the books for the first time, I felt very let down. I'm still disappointed when I think of it today. Would you say this signalled a shift to a catholic people with the fall of Sauron and the advent of the 4th Age?Alexanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-63888388764867024202013-03-13T02:05:03.924-05:002013-03-13T02:05:03.924-05:00Great analysis of Tolkien's inspirations. I...Great analysis of Tolkien's inspirations. I'm a diehard fan of his stories and they have been some of my greatest influences. My only complaint is your painting of Christian gender roles in such broad strokes. Though we may be a minority--there is still a large (growing, I hope) minority of Christians who do not read Paul's letter to Timothy so simplistically and instead insist that the Bible taken as a whole promotes gender equality.Gracenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-42250715431965255282013-03-12T19:57:03.525-05:002013-03-12T19:57:03.525-05:00Great article. The women in Tolkien's fiction...Great article. The women in Tolkien's fiction often got short shrift, though it's hard to say whether this was Tolkien's choice or a reflection of his source materials. <br /><br />While I'm "here", let me file a grievance against the movie's treatment of Eowyn: the Witch-King brags that no man may kill him. In the book, Eowyn immediately pulls off her helm and tells him "I am no man," then settles in for a fight. In the movie, she quivers, and looks fearful, and wavers under his onslaught until Merry gets him behind the knee. <br /><br />The systematic undermining of the heroes of LOTR is my only real beef with Jackson's otherwise magnificent treatment.hightidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02952540124352243487noreply@blogger.com