tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post8901624634510923229..comments2023-12-31T02:40:43.545-06:00Comments on The Norse Mythology Blog | norsemyth.org: The Thor Movies and Norse MythologyDr. Karl E. H. Seigfriedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12175244816952769358noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-56267844583313614392015-08-02T15:51:42.300-05:002015-08-02T15:51:42.300-05:00Loki has a more ambivent role in a faroese poem,su...Loki has a more ambivent role in a faroese poem,succeeding in helping a farmer when Odin and Hunir fail(or succeed in temporary fashion).papajohnlokihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01160291528287047845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-17808078198455920362014-12-01T00:55:30.682-06:002014-12-01T00:55:30.682-06:00I find it really interesting of ow the modern fict...I find it really interesting of ow the modern fictional reincarnations of the Norse myths have taken on a Christian front. The fact that they were used for the sake of a new fictional world gives an understanding for new methods to be used but the Christian front is a surprise for me.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14429421825754133980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-61761848319859217512014-07-17T14:28:05.060-05:002014-07-17T14:28:05.060-05:00This was a brilliant article. As a Viking school ...This was a brilliant article. As a Viking school visitor (I go to schools in costume to teach the children about Vikings), I get a LOT of questions about Marvel Vs Myth, usually when I start speaking about the Gods and they all get excited and start telling me about the plotlines of the films. I also adore the films however, and we must remember that the very premise of the films (and the comics upon which they are based) is that the Asgardian aliens visited earth in the past and became the basis for the myths, not the other way around. It's like Stargate, only with Norse Gods instead of Egyptians.<br /><br />Essentially these are sci-fi movies and should be enjoyed with a healthy serving of salt with a side of suspension of disbelief. If we're going to have a go at a media company for being inauthentic, we should start on the History Channel's "Vikings" which, whilst containing some authentic elements, is almost worse because it's saying "here's enough real stuff to make you think the black studded leather is ok". Great fun though! (even if for some reason Uppsala in the Swedish flatlands is portrayed as forested mountains with a Norwegian 12th century stave church.) STOP! Stop now...breathe....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14903682716780844040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-68671499884462660302014-02-28T08:53:27.538-06:002014-02-28T08:53:27.538-06:00Great interview and very interesting read.
As a Sw...Great interview and very interesting read.<br />As a Swede and somewhat educated in Norse mythology (but almost none in the Marvel Universe) I've found it very frustrating when my my friends (predominately the Americans) make references to the films/characters/events thereof and pass it off as an extension of the mythology. I don't think they realize how skewed... or just plain inaccurate what they're reading and viewing is, and perhaps they don't care. Which is fine, they're two different things -- I just wish they'd stop passing them off as the same, because it often ends up with me going "Huh... but...what? That's not what happens..." and being labelled as a killjoy when I'm just hearing something different from what I've learned. (Gah!)<br /><br />Anyway, props for an interesting and educational piece!Rihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04786949325580130494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-46819830536805387042013-11-20T14:37:49.000-06:002013-11-20T14:37:49.000-06:00I guess I'm kind of wondering how, on the one ...I guess I'm kind of wondering how, on the one hand, we can look at comic books (generally) and Thor's titles in particular and recognize them them as modern continuations and retellings of the same Mythological traditions, but on the other hand insist that myths can't become outdated or invalid. Myth has always seemed to me to be a living thing, not something that we should treat as Static -- and the gods, if they are Forces or Divine Beings or aliens (and I have no trouble believing that people in the past might misconstrue aliens with advanced technology as gods, just as I have no trouble believing that today we might misconstrue a god descending from the heavens as an alien invasion, frankly, or some kind of scientific event that we just need to study harder to figure out), surely are not static either, but must, also, adapt. <br /><br />I think the point you make, though, about how we have choice of how to engage with these myths -- as child or as an adult -- and that mostly, with Norse myth, people are stuck on the child-level is pretty insightful. But I think it applies to more than just the interpretation and interaction with Norse Myth. I think this is a general trend among the many when it comes to any and every faith -- particularly among extremist sects within those faiths and religions.<br /><br />But I don't know. It's easy to criticize the entertainment industry and hollywood for messing with these things (and honestly, I think that Hollywood has treated Thor a LOT better than they did Theseus, or the story of the Trojan War, or Perseus, or what looks to be two completely inexcusable "adaptations" of Heracles, coming down the pipe) but I think it's obvious from the Prose Edda's introduction, that Snorri grinds up the cultural artifact of Norse Myth just as determinedly as the entertainment industry -- and arguably, for the same reasons, to make it easily graspable by the widest possible demographic, in order to preserve the poetic forms of that period -- but we accept him as a legitimate and valuable source for Norse Myth, all the same, in spite of the fact that he was Christian, and living in a time when the majority of the worship of these gods had been stamped out by the Church. Should we reject the Thor comics and movies for doing the same?Amalia Dillinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13005039978668326144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-65799092611758129672013-11-19T15:50:40.085-06:002013-11-19T15:50:40.085-06:00Well, I’m glad “Wired” had the idea to do the stor...Well, I’m glad “Wired” had the idea to do the story in the first place!<br /><br />You raise interesting themes about the creative process – and the process of adapting. Comic book adaptations, like any literary adaptations, are always fraught with feelings of “that’s not right” in one way or another. In the “Thor” movies, none of the characters are quite what they are in the comics—let alone in the Eddas. I thought the closest match was Sif – a great character who is of course UTTERLY different from her Norse original. <br /><br /> <br /><br />I got a little thrill, in “The Dark World,” to hear Fandral refer to the Einhenjar. I was excited to see that Alice Krige was playing Eir. (And I thought the exchange with Jane Foster, about whether the magic bed of healing was a magic bed of healing or a quantum phase generator, was nicely done. Others may differ.) And, just as I’ve been pleased over the last ten or twelve years to see those stupid comic books I refused to throw become known around the world ;) I’m also glad that the Norse gods, who I always liked more than the Greek deities, are getting worldwide attention, even in rather changed form. Of course, it would have been better if Thor: TDW had been a really good movie.<br /><br />But the comics changed, too. The notion that the Asgardians were somehow aliens was an idea that gradually evolve over many years, with deep discussion in the Thor letters pages. In the 70s and 80s, various writers tried to explain the differences between the Marvel Asgardians and the original myths.<br /><br />You’re exactly right that, according to Marvel, Odin is the Old Testament God—and Thor is a Christ figure with Satan for a brother. And you’re right that Judeo-Christian worldview is hardwired into Western society, and this is true even among atheists. But I read that some of the Norse myths as they’ve come down to us may have been influenced by Christianity—even Ragnarok, which can seem so fundamental to the myths. (Of course, this can work the other way, too. I think of “The Dream of the Rood,” which is a Norse interpretation of the crucifixion as a heroic moment with no room for tears.) And even the Judeo-Christian mythos has changed; the figure of Satan, more of a pessimist counsellor in the Old Testament, changed after being influenced by the Zoroastrian Ahriman. <br /><br />When my 10-year-old daughter and I were writing “The Aesir Kids,” she knew the early Thor stories and D’Aulaire’s “Norse Gods & Giants” (and she hated the pictures she saw of the first Thor movie, because nobody looked like they were supposed to!). We were focusing on the children of the Aesir, so we had more freedom to make things up, but it was interesting to see how much sympathy she had (thanks to the children’s literature she’d absorbed over the previous decade) for figures like Fenris and Hela. And she was very firm about this. So those characters are VERY different in our children’s adventure novel. Because that’s how a certain modern child (with a doting dad) saw them. And I thought that was interesting. She had no sympathy for Loki, however. My guess is that a figure who undermines his adopted family is not something that a 10-year-old can admire. On the other hand, she also had no respect for the patriarchal Odin, whom she felt was a big blowhard who should listen to people more. Adaptation is always an adventure. <br /><br />But Snorri adapted too, and his version the Aesirs aren’t even real! (They’re pretend versions of Trojans—who WERE, of course, real…!) But I think everyone who loves Norse myths just ignores that bit. Just as I ignore Anthony Hopkins’ “We are not gods,” line. He said it, but Odin didn’t. <br /> <br /><br />Maybe you should do a book (or at least an online lecture!) about adaptations and/or desecrations of Norse myths! I don’t suppose “Wired” would review it, but still…JamesGrantGoldinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17623570870030663025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-74121483745756893552013-11-18T16:29:45.131-06:002013-11-18T16:29:45.131-06:00This was the best that I have read in oh so long! ...This was the best that I have read in oh so long! You keep on amazing me with your insights, thank you for that!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00150119656623704567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-32478273615899835062013-11-18T16:20:25.735-06:002013-11-18T16:20:25.735-06:00What a great comparison. Thank you for sharing! What a great comparison. Thank you for sharing! Fernando Arturo Gómez Floreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02667847328514652255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-57848712270915429432013-11-18T15:44:28.146-06:002013-11-18T15:44:28.146-06:00Totally agree,besides the Edda and all the Nord...Totally agree,besides the Edda and all the Nord's ancient writings show an other face of the "Gods" .. sure Marvel made it look smooth,but that's Marvel,a clone of Disney ..<br />isn't the same happening to all ancient records these days ??Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13628971314521651505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-53152340304645958932013-11-18T14:47:05.557-06:002013-11-18T14:47:05.557-06:00I enjoyed this article, and agree with most of it,...I enjoyed this article, and agree with most of it, with one quibble. You said, in my own words, that the Thor of the Norse myths solved all His problems with His Hammer, but this is not what happened in the Alvissmal. srunequesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07517680372870178611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-24178410832188951052013-11-18T12:52:11.007-06:002013-11-18T12:52:11.007-06:00I completely agree with your assessment! I can al...I completely agree with your assessment! I can also see why they killed it. IMHO the editors probably didn't want to offend those Judeo-Christians who might read your article.I think the bulk of Americans don't really realize how entwined those beliefs have become in their own lives. They may not even claim to be Christian, but having it framed up up in a root-level palatable way would make better ratings for the movie.Feed them the pablum that they like; hence all the angstyness and parent-child stuff.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13536392144954344221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-76879790845992150272013-11-18T11:16:22.315-06:002013-11-18T11:16:22.315-06:00This.. makes SO MUCH SENSE. I've been trying t...This.. makes SO MUCH SENSE. I've been trying to pinpoint exactly what about the Marvel Versions have totally and completely wrong and why they irk me so much. Unfortunately, I found myself brainwashed by Tumblr and the hordes of Lokeans who base their interpretation of Loki off of Tom Hiddleston (Nothing wrong with the actor, it's the character that's incorrect). Loki is NOT the misunderstood anti-hero, only in Marvel-verse. Which doesn't count b/c it's so twisted up with Judeo-Christian overtones. I love your works and wish I could take your classes. Thank you.Tallahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12443199976568442452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-10704158432230938782013-11-18T10:54:44.356-06:002013-11-18T10:54:44.356-06:00As an eclectic pagan, and follower of asatru I can...As an eclectic pagan, and follower of asatru I can attest that what has been said is entirely true. Perhaps the greatest tragedy of the conversion to Christianity is the destruction of so much of the old ways. Despite having a complex system of writing most of Norse history was passed down as oral traditions, which were then written down by christian scholars years and even centuries after the conversion. So as was stated many times "the surviving myths" are the basis of what we have to go on and most of them have been edited by a christian mindset. And alas we have the culture being diminished and polluted further by Hollywood in the effort making money. Anyone that is curious about the true Norse history should read books and disregard the films entirely, The Icelandic sagas and poetic edda and prose edda are a readily available place to start.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00071033641688447547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-77778495071322945042013-11-18T10:00:12.064-06:002013-11-18T10:00:12.064-06:00Thank you for this informative article. I am very ...Thank you for this informative article. I am very interested in Norse mythology and the culture that embraced it. I am always happy to see the facts as opposed to Hollywood glamorization.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01979898856752959458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-51310216959110369562013-11-18T08:04:55.759-06:002013-11-18T08:04:55.759-06:00I congratulate your effort to set things straight ...I congratulate your effort to set things straight about these topics. We've all seen how it went for greek myths, so it's really refreshing to see that you and others who know about these issues are still willing not to give in to these attempts to mess everything up. They are entitled to make movies as they want but they shouldn't be able to cover it as a revamping of the old myths.Nachohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07237173321203027931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2841348142033509263.post-43354996238378904662013-11-18T07:29:39.763-06:002013-11-18T07:29:39.763-06:00Really liked this post, i really like the nothern ...Really liked this post, i really like the nothern culture and find very hard to come across good realiable books on the topic here where i live.Thanks for opening my eyes to the modifications done by the movie, just found this site, great job!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10441470061092784771noreply@blogger.com